1 00:00:21,269 --> 00:00:16,609 now of course we were all absolutely 2 00:00:24,359 --> 00:00:21,279 shocked by the terrible tragedy in New 3 00:00:26,729 --> 00:00:24,369 Zealand in the past week the massacre of 4 00:00:28,729 --> 00:00:26,739 innocent people going about their daily 5 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:28,739 business in this case attending a mosque 6 00:00:35,700 --> 00:00:33,370 or two mosques as it turned out and I 7 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:35,710 note that the New Zealand Prime Minister 8 00:00:40,470 --> 00:00:38,770 has said that she will not mention the 9 00:00:45,260 --> 00:00:40,480 perpetrators name who happen to be 10 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:45,270 Australian and so neither shall I and 11 00:00:49,860 --> 00:00:47,770 this has prompted the Australian 12 00:00:52,860 --> 00:00:49,870 skeptics to publish the following 13 00:00:58,490 --> 00:00:52,870 statement published at www.skype.com 14 00:01:01,440 --> 00:00:58,500 today you on the 19th of March 2019 15 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:01,450 Australian skeptics Inc on 16 00:01:10,260 --> 00:01:08,340 Australian skeptics Inc is deeply 17 00:01:13,050 --> 00:01:10,270 saddened by the horrific terrorism 18 00:01:15,510 --> 00:01:13,060 attack in Christchurch on Friday which 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:15,520 targeted the Muslim community our 20 00:01:20,669 --> 00:01:17,770 deepest condolences go out to all those 21 00:01:22,590 --> 00:01:20,679 affected those who are grieving the 22 00:01:24,690 --> 00:01:22,600 terrible loss of family friends 23 00:01:28,499 --> 00:01:24,700 colleagues neighbors through an act of 24 00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:28,509 violent hatred we stand with you at this 25 00:01:33,690 --> 00:01:31,600 awful time and offer our support as an 26 00:01:36,809 --> 00:01:33,700 organization we are committed to 27 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:36,819 diversity and inclusivity and to 28 00:01:45,070 --> 00:01:39,250 challenge those who would spread fear 29 00:01:51,590 --> 00:01:47,930 and it's I guess it's a little bit 30 00:01:52,970 --> 00:01:51,600 ironic that I learnt about this horrible 31 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:52,980 tragedy 32 00:01:58,910 --> 00:01:55,770 not long after I'd finished speaking to 33 00:02:02,120 --> 00:01:58,920 the Bay Area skeptics and part of the 34 00:02:04,430 --> 00:02:02,130 talk I was giving concern New Zealand 35 00:02:08,410 --> 00:02:04,440 and the so called psychic detectives in 36 00:02:10,820 --> 00:02:08,420 New Zealand and I made the point that 37 00:02:13,970 --> 00:02:10,830 there's not too many murders in New 38 00:02:15,980 --> 00:02:13,980 Zealand so any anyone can research as 39 00:02:19,730 --> 00:02:15,990 especially unsolved murders there's just 40 00:02:22,610 --> 00:02:19,740 not that many how sad it was then to 41 00:02:24,380 --> 00:02:22,620 hear about this horrible tragedy and to 42 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:24,390 realize that many people were murdered 43 00:02:30,590 --> 00:02:28,410 at the same time and even though the 44 00:02:32,540 --> 00:02:30,600 skeptic zone podcast is independent from 45 00:02:35,090 --> 00:02:32,550 the Australian skeptics I am in both 46 00:02:38,270 --> 00:02:35,100 organisations of course and the skeptic 47 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:38,280 zone completely echoes the statement by 48 00:02:59,059 --> 00:02:40,010 Australian skeptics Inc 49 00:03:05,030 --> 00:03:02,220 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 50 00:03:16,580 --> 00:03:05,040 from Australia for science and reason 51 00:03:16,580 --> 00:03:16,590 [Music] 52 00:03:26,220 --> 00:03:20,360 yes it's the skeptic zone episode number 53 00:03:28,260 --> 00:03:26,230 544 for the 24th of March 2019 Richard 54 00:03:32,070 --> 00:03:28,270 Saunders here with you from the San 55 00:03:34,980 --> 00:03:32,080 Francisco Bay Area where I'm visiting 56 00:03:37,140 --> 00:03:34,990 for a couple of weeks and yes what a 57 00:03:40,230 --> 00:03:37,150 terrible story coming out of my part of 58 00:03:44,130 --> 00:03:40,240 the world New Zealand just across the 59 00:03:46,620 --> 00:03:44,140 ditch as they say from Australia and as 60 00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:46,630 I record this introduction it's now just 61 00:03:57,060 --> 00:03:55,260 now coming up on this week's episode of 62 00:04:00,199 --> 00:03:57,070 the skipped exam we're going to start 63 00:04:03,540 --> 00:04:00,209 with an interesting story about 64 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:03,550 movements lately by online outlets like 65 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:07,570 Facebook and so on to curb and curtail 66 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:13,690 and inhibit limit activities of the 67 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:16,450 anti-vaccination crowd now I think this 68 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:19,090 must be in response to recent outbreaks 69 00:04:23,070 --> 00:04:21,250 of things like measles especially in the 70 00:04:25,620 --> 00:04:23,080 United States and we'll hear from 71 00:04:29,730 --> 00:04:25,630 various news outlets about what these 72 00:04:33,690 --> 00:04:29,740 online organizations are doing to limit 73 00:04:35,430 --> 00:04:33,700 the impact of anti-vaxxers following 74 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:35,440 that it's the raw skeptic Heidi 75 00:04:40,020 --> 00:04:36,970 Robertson from the Northern Rivers 76 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:40,030 vaccination supporters Heidi is going to 77 00:04:46,290 --> 00:04:43,690 be telling us about some news concerning 78 00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:46,300 Pete Evans paleo Pete Evans a past 79 00:04:50,550 --> 00:04:48,760 winner of the Australian skeptics bent 80 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:50,560 spoon award for the most purposeless 81 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:52,570 piece of paranormal pseudo-scientific 82 00:04:58,920 --> 00:04:55,210 piffle now it seems Pete Evans has been 83 00:05:02,159 --> 00:04:58,930 sharing links to his many followers in 84 00:05:07,530 --> 00:05:02,169 the millions about anti vaccination and 85 00:05:09,690 --> 00:05:07,540 the dangers of the new 5g network who 86 00:05:13,050 --> 00:05:09,700 knows maybe Pete Evans will be in line 87 00:05:15,210 --> 00:05:13,060 for yet another bent spoon award find 88 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:15,220 out more coming up with Heidi Robinson 89 00:05:20,969 --> 00:05:17,770 then to round off the show we continue 90 00:05:23,339 --> 00:05:20,979 our series of interviews reports items 91 00:05:25,409 --> 00:05:23,349 articles from the skeptic magazine the 92 00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:25,419 journal from Australian skeptics this 93 00:05:31,290 --> 00:05:27,070 week Tim Mendham looks 94 00:05:34,590 --> 00:05:31,300 a magazine and an online site the 95 00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:34,600 magazine a new-age wonder of puffs and 96 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:39,910 sugary nothingness and online the Flat 97 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:43,090 Earth movement stay tuned at the end of 98 00:05:46,590 --> 00:05:44,710 the show for more information from me 99 00:05:50,490 --> 00:05:46,600 but for now it's time for me to run 100 00:05:52,620 --> 00:05:50,500 upstairs and indulge myself with 101 00:05:57,330 --> 00:05:52,630 something that I can get pretty easily 102 00:06:02,220 --> 00:05:57,340 here in in California hella pinot potato 103 00:06:05,180 --> 00:06:02,230 chips oh boy oh boy while I enjoy those 104 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:05,190 I hope you enjoy the skipping zone 105 00:06:33,980 --> 00:06:32,150 we live in interesting times now when it 106 00:06:36,050 --> 00:06:33,990 comes to the question of anti 107 00:06:38,420 --> 00:06:36,060 vaccination vaccinations this sort of 108 00:06:41,300 --> 00:06:38,430 thing for years as you know being a 109 00:06:43,550 --> 00:06:41,310 loyal skeptic zone listener dating right 110 00:06:46,940 --> 00:06:43,560 back to the very early episodes with dr. 111 00:06:48,770 --> 00:06:46,950 Ricci reports and more recently with the 112 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:48,780 raw skeptic report with highly Robertson 113 00:06:54,500 --> 00:06:50,370 from the Northern Rivers vaccination 114 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:54,510 supporters we have been consistently and 115 00:07:02,860 --> 00:06:58,050 strongly in favor of vaccination and 116 00:07:08,030 --> 00:07:02,870 consistently in vehement ly against the 117 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:08,040 rabble the ragtag rabble of ratbags and 118 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:10,050 misfits who call themselves the 119 00:07:14,420 --> 00:07:12,570 anti-vaxxers well let me take that fact 120 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:14,430 they don't often call themselves 121 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:17,130 anti-vaxxers outright they will use 122 00:07:22,490 --> 00:07:19,890 euphemisms like freedom of choice or 123 00:07:23,270 --> 00:07:22,500 pro-choice or ProHealth or things of 124 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:23,280 this nature 125 00:07:30,170 --> 00:07:28,290 and this segment is prompted by the fact 126 00:07:32,630 --> 00:07:30,180 that I was driving down the California 127 00:07:35,810 --> 00:07:32,640 freeway just a couple of days ago and 128 00:07:39,050 --> 00:07:35,820 the news report came on about Facebook 129 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:39,060 cracking down on anti vaccination sites 130 00:07:45,470 --> 00:07:43,530 and postings together with a interview 131 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:45,480 with one of the people we involved in a 132 00:07:49,610 --> 00:07:48,090 recent anti vaccination movie McGann 133 00:07:51,110 --> 00:07:49,620 they probably say it was not anti 134 00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:51,120 vaccination but there you go 135 00:07:57,680 --> 00:07:55,430 and they were complaining about Facebook 136 00:08:00,800 --> 00:07:57,690 interfering with their freedom of speech 137 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:00,810 and free speech their idea of free 138 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:02,370 speech does come up a lot when we're 139 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:05,330 talking about things like people 140 00:08:10,670 --> 00:08:07,890 advocating anti vaccination they've got 141 00:08:12,470 --> 00:08:10,680 every right to to say what they have to 142 00:08:13,940 --> 00:08:12,480 say they say especially under the 143 00:08:16,550 --> 00:08:13,950 American Constitution to say these 144 00:08:18,230 --> 00:08:16,560 things I mean we don't have freedom of 145 00:08:18,909 --> 00:08:18,240 speech in Australia to say any damn 146 00:08:22,149 --> 00:08:18,919 thing we 147 00:08:24,339 --> 00:08:22,159 there's libel laws for a beginning you 148 00:08:27,459 --> 00:08:24,349 can't as they say you can't yell fire in 149 00:08:29,890 --> 00:08:27,469 a crowded theater unless there's a fire 150 00:08:32,079 --> 00:08:29,900 I guess and even here in the United 151 00:08:35,350 --> 00:08:32,089 States you can't simply say anything 152 00:08:37,630 --> 00:08:35,360 you'd like and then back that up by 153 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:37,640 saying but it's free speech but to get 154 00:08:43,269 --> 00:08:40,130 back to the original idea behind this 155 00:08:49,389 --> 00:08:43,279 particular segment we have news of 156 00:08:51,939 --> 00:08:49,399 Instagram Facebook GoFundMe all cracking 157 00:08:55,990 --> 00:08:51,949 down on anti-vaccination and I will read 158 00:09:00,220 --> 00:08:56,000 from a variety of online news sites for 159 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:00,230 this report and we'll start over at the 160 00:09:08,019 --> 00:09:04,250 Hill website the hill com published on 161 00:09:10,689 --> 00:09:08,029 the 21st of March Instagram to block 162 00:09:13,540 --> 00:09:10,699 anti-vaccine hashtags amid 163 00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:13,550 misinformation crackdown and I'll quote 164 00:09:18,269 --> 00:09:15,470 some of the report here Instagram said 165 00:09:21,870 --> 00:09:18,279 Thursday it plans to block a slew of 166 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:21,880 anti-vaccine hashtags amid an ongoing 167 00:09:27,310 --> 00:09:25,130 crackdown on medical misinformation on 168 00:09:30,490 --> 00:09:27,320 the platform the company which is owned 169 00:09:33,009 --> 00:09:30,500 by Facebook shared its plans after media 170 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:33,019 outlets inquired about anti-vaccine 171 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:36,170 misinformation continuing to be spread 172 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:38,810 on the social media Giants platforms the 173 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:42,170 story goes on the spokesman said the 174 00:09:45,819 --> 00:09:44,690 platform's planned quote short term 175 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:45,829 measures end quote 176 00:09:50,470 --> 00:09:47,810 will include blocking hashtags 177 00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:50,480 associated with quote known health 178 00:09:56,460 --> 00:09:53,690 related misinformation including hashtag 179 00:10:01,420 --> 00:09:56,470 vaccines cause autism 180 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:01,430 vaccines our poison and vaccines cause 181 00:10:07,660 --> 00:10:04,850 SIDS end quote and it goes on to say the 182 00:10:09,759 --> 00:10:07,670 recent measles outbreak in the u.s. are 183 00:10:11,590 --> 00:10:09,769 in part due to the increasing number of 184 00:10:15,100 --> 00:10:11,600 people not getting vaccinations and 185 00:10:17,980 --> 00:10:15,110 experts warn the movement largely uses 186 00:10:20,230 --> 00:10:17,990 social media to promote their views this 187 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:20,240 is very true and this is of course a 188 00:10:25,449 --> 00:10:22,010 very important part of this story we are 189 00:10:27,780 --> 00:10:25,459 seeing around the world fresh outbreaks 190 00:10:31,180 --> 00:10:27,790 of things like measles and chickenpox 191 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:31,190 things that should have been now 192 00:10:36,370 --> 00:10:32,450 consigned 193 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:36,380 the annals of history and we pick up the 194 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:39,770 story now from wired comm facebook will 195 00:10:45,130 --> 00:10:42,890 crack down on anti-vaccine content the 196 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:45,140 story says as Clark County Washington 197 00:10:50,620 --> 00:10:48,050 combats and ongoing measles outbreak 198 00:10:52,990 --> 00:10:50,630 Facebook announced Thursday that it's 199 00:10:55,810 --> 00:10:53,000 diminishing the reach of anti vaccine 200 00:10:57,940 --> 00:10:55,820 information on its platform it will no 201 00:11:01,000 --> 00:10:57,950 longer allow it to be promoted through 202 00:11:04,060 --> 00:11:01,010 ads or recommendations and will make it 203 00:11:06,550 --> 00:11:04,070 less prominent in search results the 204 00:11:10,210 --> 00:11:06,560 social media network will not take down 205 00:11:12,250 --> 00:11:10,220 anti vaccine posts entirely however the 206 00:11:14,410 --> 00:11:12,260 company also said it was exploring ways 207 00:11:17,380 --> 00:11:14,420 to give users more context about 208 00:11:17,890 --> 00:11:17,390 vaccines from expert organizations end 209 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:17,900 quote 210 00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:20,290 the decision was widely anticipated 211 00:11:26,620 --> 00:11:23,600 Facebook along with YouTube and Amazon 212 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:26,630 has faced criticism from journalists and 213 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:28,970 lawmakers in recent weeks for allowing 214 00:11:34,510 --> 00:11:31,730 vaccine information to flourish on their 215 00:11:37,060 --> 00:11:34,520 sites the story goes on Facebook will 216 00:11:39,220 --> 00:11:37,070 also reduce the ranking of pages and 217 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:39,230 groups that spread misinformation about 218 00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:41,930 vaccines in search results and in its 219 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:45,440 news feed in February the Guardian found 220 00:11:51,190 --> 00:11:48,170 that anti vaccination propaganda often 221 00:11:54,010 --> 00:11:51,200 ranked higher and outperformed accurate 222 00:11:57,100 --> 00:11:54,020 information from more reliable sources 223 00:11:59,500 --> 00:11:57,110 on Facebook now let's flip over to us 224 00:12:04,060 --> 00:11:59,510 today for our next segment in this 225 00:12:07,930 --> 00:12:04,070 report GoFundMe is cracking down on anti 226 00:12:09,910 --> 00:12:07,940 vaccination campaigns GoFundMe is one of 227 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:09,920 the latest online platforms to cut off 228 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:11,810 proponents of anti vaccine related 229 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:12,410 content 230 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:14,810 the online fundraising service said on 231 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:17,090 Friday that any campaigns created on the 232 00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:18,890 website that promote quote 233 00:12:24,490 --> 00:12:22,060 misinformation and quote about vaccines 234 00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:24,500 automatically get shut down for 235 00:12:29,470 --> 00:12:27,680 violating its Terms of Service quote 236 00:12:31,570 --> 00:12:29,480 campaigns raising money to promote 237 00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:31,580 misinformation about vaccines and 238 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:35,150 violate GoFundMe 'z Terms of Service and 239 00:12:40,660 --> 00:12:37,490 will be removed from the platform in 240 00:12:43,090 --> 00:12:40,670 quote GoFundMe said in an email to USA 241 00:12:45,250 --> 00:12:43,100 Today the story goes on to say the 242 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:45,260 crackdown on anti vaccination content 243 00:12:48,130 --> 00:12:46,010 comes after 244 00:12:50,500 --> 00:12:48,140 other online platforms like Facebook and 245 00:12:52,990 --> 00:12:50,510 Instagram have begun to remove channels 246 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:53,000 and posts from their websites that try 247 00:12:57,610 --> 00:12:55,730 to discredit vaccinations according to 248 00:12:58,420 --> 00:12:57,620 the Centers for Disease Control and 249 00:13:01,690 --> 00:12:58,430 Prevention 250 00:13:04,290 --> 00:13:01,700 there have been 268 cases of measles 251 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:04,300 reported in the u.s. so far in 2019 252 00:13:13,030 --> 00:13:08,330 compared with a preliminary count of 372 253 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:13,040 for the year 2018 through December 29 in 254 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:17,530 2010 63 cases were reported and that 255 00:13:24,940 --> 00:13:22,850 last set of numbers speaks sadly about 256 00:13:28,390 --> 00:13:24,950 the fact that more and more parents are 257 00:13:32,650 --> 00:13:28,400 buying into this anti vaccination guff 258 00:13:36,550 --> 00:13:32,660 and it is having an impact we're the 259 00:13:37,870 --> 00:13:36,560 increase of these diseases now this 260 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:37,880 general story has caught the attention 261 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:41,210 of media back in Australia and I'll play 262 00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:43,850 a short clip now from a segment on the 263 00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:46,630 sunrise program on the Seven Network 264 00:13:52,210 --> 00:13:49,760 part of the segment involving this very 265 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:52,220 question prominent anti-vaxxers are 266 00:13:56,170 --> 00:13:54,050 being banned from spreading their 267 00:13:58,270 --> 00:13:56,180 dangerous messages on facebook and 268 00:14:01,840 --> 00:13:58,280 instagram The Daily Telegraph reports 269 00:14:04,180 --> 00:14:01,850 NRL wags Taylor winter Stein and Chanel 270 00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:04,190 Cartwright have had restrictions placed 271 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:07,220 on their accounts now last month the 272 00:14:12,850 --> 00:14:09,170 social media giant introduced measures 273 00:14:15,100 --> 00:14:12,860 to prevent this and misinform messages 274 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:15,110 about the vaccinations being spread on 275 00:14:18,490 --> 00:14:17,330 their sites joining me now Christie Meza 276 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:18,500 from The Thinker girls 277 00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:20,810 Melissa Fayette from news.com delay you 278 00:14:27,070 --> 00:14:23,680 and the morning shows Kylie gillies is 279 00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:27,080 this a good move or is this preventing 280 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:29,510 free speech Christine people go of it 281 00:14:34,420 --> 00:14:31,730 bonkers for free speech but I think we 282 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:34,430 live in a very different age that we 283 00:14:40,630 --> 00:14:38,450 used to whereby people people these days 284 00:14:43,780 --> 00:14:40,640 are not just individuals we have like 285 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:43,790 captive audiences thousands hundreds of 286 00:14:47,710 --> 00:14:45,410 thousands sometimes millions of people 287 00:14:49,690 --> 00:14:47,720 listening to what an individual is 288 00:14:51,730 --> 00:14:49,700 saying through the power of social media 289 00:14:53,260 --> 00:14:51,740 so I think in a way 290 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:53,270 individuals sometimes need to be viewed 291 00:14:57,340 --> 00:14:55,730 as new services and can you as a new 292 00:14:59,200 --> 00:14:57,350 service get on board and say well I 293 00:15:01,480 --> 00:14:59,210 don't believe that you should you know 294 00:15:03,340 --> 00:15:01,490 vaccinate your kids for ABCDE reasons no 295 00:15:06,970 --> 00:15:03,350 you need to be held accountable so I 296 00:15:09,130 --> 00:15:06,980 think in a way I mean of course of 297 00:15:11,620 --> 00:15:09,140 course it's important to be able to have 298 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:11,630 freedom of speech and speak your mind 299 00:15:15,220 --> 00:15:13,490 and have an opinion but I do think there 300 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:15,230 is a line that I think it's a bit of a 301 00:15:20,410 --> 00:15:17,450 gray area at the moment where you know 302 00:15:22,660 --> 00:15:20,420 where laws and and opinions and ideas of 303 00:15:24,910 --> 00:15:22,670 the way we kind of live our lives and 304 00:15:28,630 --> 00:15:24,920 the way society views individuals and 305 00:15:31,030 --> 00:15:28,640 you know is changing because we're not 306 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:31,040 just individuals talking at a pub and 307 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:32,090 you can believe whatever you want 308 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:33,530 because that's free speech you know 309 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:35,330 particular people have millions of 310 00:15:39,580 --> 00:15:38,090 followers that would you know say and 311 00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:39,590 agree with any single thing that they 312 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:41,270 said which could endanger their their 313 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:42,770 kids or their families which i think is 314 00:15:46,030 --> 00:15:44,330 important to look at we are blocking 315 00:15:49,570 --> 00:15:46,040 people from coming into the country now 316 00:15:52,510 --> 00:15:49,580 I mean the free speech you know issue so 317 00:15:54,730 --> 00:15:52,520 there we are some no-nonsense common 318 00:15:57,310 --> 00:15:54,740 sense in my view from the sunrise 319 00:16:00,910 --> 00:15:57,320 program on the Seven Network in 320 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:00,920 Australia and finally something that 321 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:02,810 caught my attention just a few days ago 322 00:16:09,370 --> 00:16:07,250 I was unaware of and we now flip over to 323 00:16:12,940 --> 00:16:09,380 CNN for this report 324 00:16:14,620 --> 00:16:12,950 I saw a headline on the TV news as I was 325 00:16:17,710 --> 00:16:14,630 at the gym working out on the treadmill 326 00:16:19,890 --> 00:16:17,720 looked up glanced up to a monitor and I 327 00:16:23,050 --> 00:16:19,900 saw a headline 328 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:23,060 Kentucky governor said he exposed his 329 00:16:29,890 --> 00:16:26,450 children to chickenpox rather then 330 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:29,900 getting vaccine Kentucky governor Matt 331 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:34,730 Bevin says he made sure all his nine 332 00:16:41,020 --> 00:16:37,850 children were exposed to chicken pox and 333 00:16:44,380 --> 00:16:41,030 caught the disease instead of giving 334 00:16:46,570 --> 00:16:44,390 them a vaccine quote they had it as 335 00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:46,580 children they were miserable for a few 336 00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:48,800 days and they all turned out fine 337 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:52,430 end quote Bevin said in an interview 338 00:16:59,950 --> 00:16:57,170 with wk CT a Bowling Green radio station 339 00:17:01,210 --> 00:16:59,960 the governor says he supports parents 340 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:01,220 who choose to get their children 341 00:17:05,110 --> 00:17:04,250 vaccinated and also those who declined 342 00:17:07,360 --> 00:17:05,120 to do so 343 00:17:10,449 --> 00:17:07,370 but he said the decision shouldn't be up 344 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:10,459 to government quote this is America main 345 00:17:14,829 --> 00:17:12,770 quote he said quote the federal 346 00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:14,839 government should not be forcing this 347 00:17:19,569 --> 00:17:17,600 upon people they just shouldn't end 348 00:17:21,610 --> 00:17:19,579 quote the story goes on to state 349 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:21,620 chickenpox is a very contagious disease 350 00:17:28,149 --> 00:17:24,730 that causes blister-like rash itching 351 00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:28,159 tiredness and fever according to the US 352 00:17:33,190 --> 00:17:30,529 Centers for Disease Control and 353 00:17:37,060 --> 00:17:33,200 Prevention it can be spread by touching 354 00:17:38,919 --> 00:17:37,070 or breathing in virus particles and the 355 00:17:40,750 --> 00:17:38,929 story goes on I will link to all these 356 00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:40,760 stories in the show notes but let me say 357 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:43,039 something about chickenpox which the 358 00:17:52,060 --> 00:17:46,610 good governor might have overlooked when 359 00:17:55,060 --> 00:17:52,070 deciding to infect his children that 360 00:17:58,840 --> 00:17:55,070 later in life those children can look 361 00:18:01,950 --> 00:17:58,850 forward to shingles and having had 362 00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:01,960 shingles myself a few years back I 363 00:18:09,220 --> 00:18:06,110 cannot say that I recommended I was 364 00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,230 lucky it was mild I caught it in time 365 00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:11,600 when I was able to take preventive 366 00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:15,710 medication it was still horrible I felt 367 00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:21,590 awful and I was very lucky because my 368 00:18:30,130 --> 00:18:25,120 particular shingles infected my face and 369 00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:30,140 the corner of my eye but people do go 370 00:18:36,850 --> 00:18:33,260 blind so there's a wrap-up of the the 371 00:18:39,070 --> 00:18:36,860 mood of many online at the moment when 372 00:18:41,549 --> 00:18:39,080 it comes to vaccines and vaccination or 373 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:41,559 should I say to the rhetoric and 374 00:18:46,110 --> 00:18:44,450 misinformation by the anti-vaxxers I 375 00:18:50,980 --> 00:18:46,120 [Music] 376 00:18:53,789 --> 00:18:50,990 hope it does some good however this is a 377 00:18:57,730 --> 00:18:53,799 long road because the anti-vaxxer 378 00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:57,740 somewhat organized and obviously are 379 00:19:22,299 --> 00:19:18,090 [Music] 380 00:19:28,419 --> 00:19:22,309 skeptic on 2019 December the 6th to the 381 00:19:32,110 --> 00:19:28,429 8th in Melbourne the Victorian skeptics 382 00:19:34,180 --> 00:19:32,120 has released details for skeptic on 2019 383 00:19:37,090 --> 00:19:34,190 the Australian skeptics National 384 00:19:39,639 --> 00:19:37,100 Convention after two successful skeptic 385 00:19:42,940 --> 00:19:39,649 ons in Sydney this annual event is 386 00:19:45,389 --> 00:19:42,950 returning to Melbourne skeptic on 2019 387 00:19:48,610 --> 00:19:45,399 will be held close to the Melbourne CBD 388 00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:48,620 between the 6th and April December 2019 389 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:50,750 there will be many international 390 00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:52,850 speakers and outstanding locals 391 00:19:58,090 --> 00:19:56,000 attending but this will be at heart a 392 00:19:59,919 --> 00:19:58,100 community event facilitating the 393 00:20:05,649 --> 00:19:59,929 exchange of ideas amongst those who 394 00:20:08,889 --> 00:20:05,659 value an empirical mindset the schedule 395 00:20:12,159 --> 00:20:08,899 is Thursday December 5 trivia night 396 00:20:15,460 --> 00:20:12,169 Friday December 6 welcome event in the 397 00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:15,470 evening Saturday December 7 and Sunday 398 00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:18,529 December 8 main convention with the 399 00:20:23,860 --> 00:20:20,480 convention dinner on the evening of the 400 00:20:26,540 --> 00:20:23,870 7th more details of speakers and the 401 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:26,550 venue's will be announced soon 402 00:20:33,330 --> 00:20:30,370 [Music] 403 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:33,340 for more information visit 404 00:20:59,639 --> 00:20:48,030 [Music] 405 00:21:12,999 --> 00:21:03,609 it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi 406 00:21:14,529 --> 00:21:13,009 Robertson hello everyone this is Heidi 407 00:21:18,310 --> 00:21:14,539 Robertson from the Northern Rivers 408 00:21:21,970 --> 00:21:18,320 vaccinations supporters last week in 409 00:21:24,039 --> 00:21:21,980 episode 5 43 Richard reported on the 410 00:21:26,139 --> 00:21:24,049 latest media coverage of Australian 411 00:21:30,310 --> 00:21:26,149 celebrity chef and former bent spoon 412 00:21:32,369 --> 00:21:30,320 Award winner Pete Evans Pete Evans or 413 00:21:35,529 --> 00:21:32,379 paleo Pete as we know him is a 414 00:21:40,029 --> 00:21:35,539 self-described anti fluoride and his 415 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:40,039 sunscreen anti dairy chef he has no 416 00:21:46,060 --> 00:21:43,970 medical qualifications and last week as 417 00:21:48,749 --> 00:21:46,070 Richard covered saw him link to a 418 00:21:51,669 --> 00:21:48,759 podcast promoting an anti vaccination 419 00:21:54,450 --> 00:21:51,679 agenda Pete has not rested on his 420 00:21:57,310 --> 00:21:54,460 laurels after that bit of media coverage 421 00:21:59,259 --> 00:21:57,320 this week he has asked his Facebook 422 00:22:02,350 --> 00:21:59,269 followers to read an article he linked 423 00:22:05,739 --> 00:22:02,360 to titled the dangers of 5g to 424 00:22:09,999 --> 00:22:05,749 children's health the article is on a 425 00:22:11,889 --> 00:22:10,009 website run by Robert F Kennedy Jr who 426 00:22:15,430 --> 00:22:11,899 is somewhat of a hero in the 427 00:22:17,940 --> 00:22:15,440 anti-vaccination movement you may recall 428 00:22:20,169 --> 00:22:17,950 early on in Donald Trump's presidency 429 00:22:22,509 --> 00:22:20,179 Kennedy claimed that he had met with 430 00:22:26,169 --> 00:22:22,519 Trump and that Trump had asked him to 431 00:22:28,810 --> 00:22:26,179 lead a vaccine safety commission this 432 00:22:31,659 --> 00:22:28,820 news was widely celebrated in the 433 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:31,669 anti-vaccination groups worldwide but 434 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:35,090 came to nothing so just to give you a 435 00:22:41,019 --> 00:22:38,210 brief overview of what Kennedy's website 436 00:22:43,539 --> 00:22:41,029 is about the website paleo Pete shared 437 00:22:45,820 --> 00:22:43,549 with his 1.5 million followers and the 438 00:22:48,129 --> 00:22:45,830 link to that website that has now been 439 00:22:51,279 --> 00:22:48,139 shared close to 1,200 times from Pete's 440 00:22:54,879 --> 00:22:51,289 Facebook page one section of the website 441 00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:54,889 is labeled exposing causes known 442 00:23:01,419 --> 00:22:58,129 culprits and a sample of topics listed 443 00:23:02,289 --> 00:23:01,429 underneath are paracetamol flame 444 00:23:06,659 --> 00:23:02,299 retardants 445 00:23:11,829 --> 00:23:06,669 flouride food additives glyphosate 446 00:23:14,499 --> 00:23:11,839 ultrasound and of course vaccines also 447 00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:14,509 in there is the topic of electromagnetic 448 00:23:19,539 --> 00:23:16,849 fields and wireless technologies and 449 00:23:21,669 --> 00:23:19,549 we'll get to that in one moment the 450 00:23:24,209 --> 00:23:21,679 website also has an online bookstore 451 00:23:27,639 --> 00:23:24,219 selling predominantly anti-vaccination 452 00:23:31,239 --> 00:23:27,649 publications now if you're thinking 453 00:23:34,509 --> 00:23:31,249 let's just ignore paleo Pete I'm not 454 00:23:36,579 --> 00:23:34,519 sure that that is the best answer many 455 00:23:39,369 --> 00:23:36,589 people are following him and sharing his 456 00:23:42,219 --> 00:23:39,379 posts and he's using his platform to 457 00:23:44,499 --> 00:23:42,229 share his personal beliefs some of which 458 00:23:48,219 --> 00:23:44,509 unfortunately do not survive the litmus 459 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:48,229 test for accuracy or legitimacy and have 460 00:23:55,239 --> 00:23:52,129 the potential to cause harm all comments 461 00:23:57,609 --> 00:23:55,249 underneath this particular posts as with 462 00:23:59,849 --> 00:23:57,619 all his posts are in support of his 463 00:24:03,209 --> 00:23:59,859 views and he has left many 464 00:24:05,739 --> 00:24:03,219 anti-vaccination comments still visible 465 00:24:07,959 --> 00:24:05,749 I'm just one of the people permanently 466 00:24:10,690 --> 00:24:07,969 blocked from his page I think there are 467 00:24:12,399 --> 00:24:10,700 hundreds of us after attempting to bring 468 00:24:19,060 --> 00:24:12,409 some polite reason to the topics 469 00:24:21,639 --> 00:24:19,070 discussed so this particular 5g article 470 00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:21,649 he said what's wrong with it well it 471 00:24:25,899 --> 00:24:24,289 appears to me as a layperson to be a 472 00:24:28,989 --> 00:24:25,909 pretty good example of an article 473 00:24:31,690 --> 00:24:28,999 illustrating many red flags that 474 00:24:34,089 --> 00:24:31,700 skeptics are aware of I want to 475 00:24:36,369 --> 00:24:34,099 emphasize first that I'm in no way shape 476 00:24:40,299 --> 00:24:36,379 or form an expert in the safety of 477 00:24:43,209 --> 00:24:40,309 wireless technologies and as with most 478 00:24:45,699 --> 00:24:43,219 topics that I am NOT an expert in and 479 00:24:48,099 --> 00:24:45,709 that's most topics I defer to the 480 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:48,109 experts in the field and the current 481 00:24:53,889 --> 00:24:50,450 scientific consensus to see what they 482 00:24:55,869 --> 00:24:53,899 have to say going to legitimate sources 483 00:24:57,879 --> 00:24:55,879 of information is the only way for 484 00:25:01,029 --> 00:24:57,889 someone like me to try and discern good 485 00:25:03,099 --> 00:25:01,039 science from bad the thing I'm most 486 00:25:05,349 --> 00:25:03,109 appreciative of in being part of the 487 00:25:08,979 --> 00:25:05,359 skeptical community is the ability to 488 00:25:12,810 --> 00:25:08,989 now be able to most of the time spot red 489 00:25:15,030 --> 00:25:12,820 flags in news articles TV shows blogs 490 00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:15,040 social media posts and 491 00:25:20,790 --> 00:25:17,710 on that indicate that what I'm reading 492 00:25:24,690 --> 00:25:20,800 or hearing may not be a legitimate or 493 00:25:27,450 --> 00:25:24,700 trustworthy source as listeners well 494 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:27,460 know one of those red flags is the use 495 00:25:34,140 --> 00:25:31,090 of hyperbolic inflammatory language when 496 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:34,150 describing the given topic you'll 497 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:35,770 generally not see this type of language 498 00:25:39,870 --> 00:25:38,050 in a reputable publication or news 499 00:25:43,290 --> 00:25:39,880 source that is reporting on the science 500 00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:43,300 behind something however many anti 501 00:25:47,490 --> 00:25:45,370 science groups will purposely use this 502 00:25:50,340 --> 00:25:47,500 language to instill fear in the reader 503 00:25:52,530 --> 00:25:50,350 or viewer as they are very well aware 504 00:25:56,690 --> 00:25:52,540 that once a person has been frightened 505 00:25:58,890 --> 00:25:56,700 it is very difficult to unfried in them 506 00:26:02,280 --> 00:25:58,900 another tactic they use is 507 00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:02,290 cherry-picking of the evidence or using 508 00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:04,960 weak or non replicated studies whilst 509 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:06,880 ignoring other more well-designed 510 00:26:13,050 --> 00:26:09,690 studies that do not show what they want 511 00:26:17,250 --> 00:26:13,060 they are big fans of anecdotes which are 512 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:17,260 also very powerful influences now at the 513 00:26:23,340 --> 00:26:19,330 Northern Rivers vaccination supporters 514 00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:23,350 we will also sometimes use anecdotes the 515 00:26:27,930 --> 00:26:25,510 difference is that our anecdotes 516 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:27,940 highlight or support the overwhelming 517 00:26:34,220 --> 00:26:30,250 evidence that is already out there on 518 00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:34,230 the safety and efficacy of vaccination 519 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:36,880 anti science people or organizations 520 00:26:42,690 --> 00:26:39,970 will also take a quote or a fact and 521 00:26:45,180 --> 00:26:42,700 place it out of contexts or even edit it 522 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:45,190 in order to make it fit with their 523 00:26:49,890 --> 00:26:48,010 preconceived narrative they make up 524 00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:49,900 their minds prior to writing their 525 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:52,720 articles and they find any information 526 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:55,690 they can retrofit that will support 527 00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:57,250 their position 528 00:27:01,560 --> 00:26:58,890 [Applause] 529 00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:01,570 yet another tactic is stating that 530 00:27:06,690 --> 00:27:03,520 because scientists cannot prove zero 531 00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:06,700 risk then there must be an unacceptable 532 00:27:12,150 --> 00:27:08,799 risk that we should all be concerned 533 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:12,160 about I couldn't for the life of me 534 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:15,370 remember what this logical fallacy was 535 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:17,890 called so I turned to my skeptic friends 536 00:27:26,130 --> 00:27:21,450 and thanks to many of you but first 537 00:27:28,770 --> 00:27:26,140 buttons who who explained it were Harry 538 00:27:30,990 --> 00:27:28,780 and Phil from Brisbane skeptics for 539 00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:31,000 reminding me that this is also known as 540 00:27:36,510 --> 00:27:34,080 the Nirvana fallacy 541 00:27:38,789 --> 00:27:36,520 there's also common for these websites 542 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:38,799 to be selling something and in this case 543 00:27:46,530 --> 00:27:41,010 as I mentioned there is an online store 544 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:46,540 full of anti-vaccination books I'm 545 00:27:51,060 --> 00:27:48,130 certainly not going to read out the 546 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:51,070 article in full that Pete linked to if 547 00:27:57,450 --> 00:27:53,650 you'd like to read it it is easily found 548 00:28:00,450 --> 00:27:57,460 on the googles however I'll give you an 549 00:28:04,370 --> 00:28:00,460 example of the shall we say for Lowry 550 00:28:07,130 --> 00:28:04,380 language used in the article quite 551 00:28:12,270 --> 00:28:07,140 unprecedented forms of mandatory 552 00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:12,280 irradiation 5g frenzy catastrophic 553 00:28:18,419 --> 00:28:14,910 health effects next great unknown 554 00:28:20,820 --> 00:28:18,429 experiment on our children millions of 555 00:28:24,539 --> 00:28:20,830 small cell towers every 500 feet on 556 00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:24,549 every street corner 5g technology will 557 00:28:32,850 --> 00:28:27,910 blast through walls and cribs nowhere to 558 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:32,860 hide terror existential threat rush to 559 00:28:40,830 --> 00:28:36,490 blanket the planet with 5g experiment on 560 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:40,840 humanity end quote and so on so what 561 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:42,970 does the science have to say on the 562 00:28:51,659 --> 00:28:47,650 subject of 5g do paleo Pete and Robert F 563 00:28:53,610 --> 00:28:51,669 Kennedy jr. have a point Steven novella 564 00:28:56,340 --> 00:28:53,620 clinical neurologist and well-known 565 00:28:59,070 --> 00:28:56,350 skeptic and host of the podcast skeptics 566 00:29:01,169 --> 00:28:59,080 guide to the universe wrote a very 567 00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:01,179 measured article on science-based 568 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:05,950 medicine on the 13th of March 2019 his 569 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:07,690 blog was in response to a petition 570 00:29:13,030 --> 00:29:10,650 signed by 250 scientists 571 00:29:15,740 --> 00:29:13,040 recently and sent to the World Health 572 00:29:19,220 --> 00:29:15,750 Organization warning about wireless 573 00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:19,230 technology and I quote from dr. novellas 574 00:29:25,420 --> 00:29:22,850 blog we can never prove zero risk and 575 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:25,430 technology is always evolving 576 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:28,170 therefore it is reasonable to call for 577 00:29:33,830 --> 00:29:30,090 more research as we further adopt 578 00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:33,840 wireless technology he goes on to say I 579 00:29:38,390 --> 00:29:36,510 think the best recommendation for right 580 00:29:41,180 --> 00:29:38,400 now is that while there is probably 581 00:29:43,220 --> 00:29:41,190 little to no risk if you want to make 582 00:29:46,430 --> 00:29:43,230 sure you are minimizing possible risk 583 00:29:48,860 --> 00:29:46,440 then use Wired earbuds for electronic 584 00:29:51,410 --> 00:29:48,870 devices rather than putting them up to 585 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:51,420 your ear we are living in an 586 00:29:56,890 --> 00:29:54,690 increasingly wireless society and the 587 00:29:59,930 --> 00:29:56,900 change is happening relatively quickly 588 00:30:02,840 --> 00:29:59,940 we therefore do need to monitor for 589 00:30:05,810 --> 00:30:02,850 potential health effects and continue to 590 00:30:07,780 --> 00:30:05,820 do proper research but so far the 591 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:07,790 apparent risk from non ionizing 592 00:30:13,550 --> 00:30:10,970 radiation from radio frequency devices 593 00:30:16,460 --> 00:30:13,560 appears to be little to none which is 594 00:30:18,860 --> 00:30:16,470 reassuring premature warnings that 595 00:30:21,650 --> 00:30:18,870 distort the current scientific consensus 596 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:21,660 are not helpful they tend to cause 597 00:30:26,030 --> 00:30:24,210 unwarranted fear which leads to 598 00:30:29,770 --> 00:30:26,040 counterproductive laws restricting 599 00:30:32,690 --> 00:30:29,780 useful technology and unfair lawsuits 600 00:30:34,430 --> 00:30:32,700 even for an organization dedicated to 601 00:30:37,370 --> 00:30:34,440 assessing the risk of radiofrequency 602 00:30:39,950 --> 00:30:37,380 technology it is advisable not to 603 00:30:42,650 --> 00:30:39,960 overstate the science lest you lose 604 00:30:45,580 --> 00:30:42,660 credibility and may actually hurt the 605 00:30:48,110 --> 00:30:45,590 cause you are fighting for end quote 606 00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:48,120 surgical oncologist and another of the 607 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:49,710 writers for the science-based medicine 608 00:30:57,590 --> 00:30:53,690 blog David Gorski explains it as follows 609 00:31:00,380 --> 00:30:57,600 quote we do know from science that 610 00:31:02,780 --> 00:31:00,390 vaccines do not cause autism and that 611 00:31:05,060 --> 00:31:02,790 cell phone radiation not only does not 612 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:05,070 cause the health effects attributed to 613 00:31:10,670 --> 00:31:08,130 it but almost certainly cannot cause 614 00:31:14,150 --> 00:31:10,680 those health effects because the energy 615 00:31:18,590 --> 00:31:14,160 carried by radio waves is too low to do 616 00:31:21,260 --> 00:31:18,600 what is claimed it's basic physics for 617 00:31:23,660 --> 00:31:21,270 instance I like to say that although a 618 00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:23,670 link between cell phone radiation and 619 00:31:27,650 --> 00:31:24,240 cancer 620 00:31:30,740 --> 00:31:27,660 is not homeopathy level implausible it 621 00:31:33,380 --> 00:31:30,750 is incredibly implausible because most 622 00:31:36,740 --> 00:31:33,390 of the mechanisms of carcinogenesis we 623 00:31:38,930 --> 00:31:36,750 know involve as an inciting event the 624 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:38,940 breaking of chemical bonds in DNA to 625 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:42,210 cause mutations and even the mechanisms 626 00:31:46,940 --> 00:31:44,490 we're coming to understand that might 627 00:31:49,940 --> 00:31:46,950 require chemical bond breakage as an 628 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:49,950 inciting event are incredibly unlikely 629 00:31:54,820 --> 00:31:53,250 to be impacted by such low energy waves 630 00:31:57,770 --> 00:31:54,830 end quote 631 00:32:01,310 --> 00:31:57,780 Rodney Croft director of the Australian 632 00:32:04,580 --> 00:32:01,320 Centre of electromagnetic bio effects 633 00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:04,590 research was interviewed by the ABC here 634 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:07,710 in Australia last year about 5g and I'll 635 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:11,610 quote a fraction of that article quote 636 00:32:18,340 --> 00:32:14,370 despite research showing no link between 637 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:18,350 safe levels of radiofrequency and cancer 638 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:20,370 telecommunications companies and other 639 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:22,890 organisations do offer suggestions if 640 00:32:27,980 --> 00:32:26,010 you want to reduce exposure the 641 00:32:31,460 --> 00:32:27,990 Australian radiation protection and 642 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:31,470 Nuclear Safety Agency also recommends 643 00:32:36,770 --> 00:32:33,930 using hands-free or texting instead of 644 00:32:38,930 --> 00:32:36,780 calling quote but none of those things 645 00:32:42,590 --> 00:32:38,940 are actually based on any health effects 646 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:42,600 and quote professor Croft said he goes 647 00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:45,450 on to say quote then there are companies 648 00:32:51,740 --> 00:32:47,790 that make devices that claim to block 649 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:51,750 harmful mobile radiation but of course 650 00:32:58,940 --> 00:32:54,530 if it's cancelling radiofrequency out 651 00:33:02,600 --> 00:32:58,950 then your phone can't work the article 652 00:33:04,370 --> 00:33:02,610 then says so does radiofrequency have 653 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:04,380 any effect on human tissue 654 00:33:10,100 --> 00:33:06,810 apart from heating it a fraction of a 655 00:33:12,830 --> 00:33:10,110 degree that question is still open 656 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:12,840 professor would set and sight note 657 00:33:20,570 --> 00:33:16,170 professor wood is a biophysicist at 658 00:33:22,790 --> 00:33:20,580 Swinburne University of Technology quote 659 00:33:25,610 --> 00:33:22,800 even though some of the evidence that 660 00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:25,620 radiofrequency causes damage on the face 661 00:33:31,310 --> 00:33:27,840 of it looks quite compelling there's 662 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:31,320 still a question of consistency some 663 00:33:36,290 --> 00:33:33,570 laboratories seem to get quite dramatic 664 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:36,300 effects and then others try to replicate 665 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:38,050 the work and are unable to 666 00:33:43,650 --> 00:33:41,530 and quote other researchers suggest that 667 00:33:46,230 --> 00:33:43,660 health risks associated with mobile 668 00:33:48,270 --> 00:33:46,240 phones may be indirect such as the 669 00:33:50,550 --> 00:33:48,280 sharply increased incident rate of 670 00:33:54,150 --> 00:33:50,560 traffic accidents caused by telephoning 671 00:33:55,860 --> 00:33:54,160 during driving and possibly also by 672 00:33:58,800 --> 00:33:55,870 stress reactions which annoyed 673 00:34:03,390 --> 00:33:58,810 bystanders may experience when cellular 674 00:34:06,150 --> 00:34:03,400 phones are used in public places what is 675 00:34:10,410 --> 00:34:06,160 certain professor would said is that 676 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:10,420 radio frequency is a lifesaver quote 677 00:34:15,090 --> 00:34:12,850 while I don't think radio frequency 678 00:34:17,820 --> 00:34:15,100 emerges with a completely clean bill of 679 00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:17,830 health it emerges with a pretty good 680 00:34:21,810 --> 00:34:20,860 bill of health the fact is that it saves 681 00:34:24,180 --> 00:34:21,820 lives 682 00:34:28,290 --> 00:34:24,190 think of search and rescue and emergency 683 00:34:33,419 --> 00:34:28,300 situations the benefits far outweigh the 684 00:34:36,180 --> 00:34:33,429 risks end quote so I hope that paleo 685 00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:36,190 Pete's followers do use a bit of 686 00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:38,170 critical thinking when reading articles 687 00:34:42,870 --> 00:34:40,800 such as this that he is linking to I 688 00:34:45,020 --> 00:34:42,880 would have commented with the above 689 00:34:49,790 --> 00:34:45,030 points on his Facebook page but unless 690 00:34:52,919 --> 00:34:49,800 I've been blocked for a few years now so 691 00:34:55,620 --> 00:34:52,929 that's it from me for now thank you for 692 00:34:58,500 --> 00:34:55,630 listening this has been Heidi Robertson 693 00:35:00,720 --> 00:34:58,510 from the Northern Rivers vaccination 694 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:00,730 supporters you can find us on Facebook 695 00:35:06,329 --> 00:35:04,450 or Twitter at in our backs that's vix 696 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:06,339 supporters 697 00:35:13,710 --> 00:35:09,970 or swing by our Facebook page or our 698 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:13,720 website and our BS info and get in touch 699 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:34,280 [Music] 700 00:35:41,130 --> 00:35:39,250 yes hey Sam have you ever wondered what 701 00:35:43,020 --> 00:35:41,140 skeptics are up to in countries where 702 00:35:45,150 --> 00:35:43,030 English is not necessarily the first 703 00:35:46,890 --> 00:35:45,160 language or are you interested to learn 704 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:46,900 about some fascinating and sometimes 705 00:35:51,540 --> 00:35:49,330 very bizarre Europe related facts events 706 00:35:53,250 --> 00:35:51,550 or people from history of skepticism or 707 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:53,260 you just want to know who's been really 708 00:35:58,770 --> 00:35:55,930 wrong lately you can find out all about 709 00:36:03,360 --> 00:35:58,780 that and more on the award-winning show 710 00:36:05,460 --> 00:36:03,370 the ESP the European sceptics podcast so 711 00:36:09,150 --> 00:36:05,470 where can people find the show you can 712 00:36:11,340 --> 00:36:09,160 find it online at the ESP dot EU but you 713 00:36:14,070 --> 00:36:11,350 can also follow us on Twitter at es 714 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:14,080 podcast and d'ascoyne you or like us on 715 00:36:19,410 --> 00:36:16,450 Facebook oh and you can contact the show 716 00:36:21,690 --> 00:36:19,420 by sending an email to info at the ESP 717 00:36:23,820 --> 00:36:21,700 dot EU if you want to subscribe do a 718 00:36:27,060 --> 00:36:23,830 quick search for the European skeptics 719 00:36:29,820 --> 00:36:27,070 podcast on soundcloud iTunes stitcher or 720 00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:29,830 wherever you get your podcast the 721 00:36:36,270 --> 00:36:33,670 European skeptics podcast the real ESP 722 00:36:38,950 --> 00:36:36,280 experience 723 00:36:41,070 --> 00:36:38,960 [Music] 724 00:37:01,260 --> 00:36:41,080 crazy 725 00:37:03,810 --> 00:37:01,270 I don't know how you can believe now we 726 00:37:06,870 --> 00:37:03,820 continue our series of reviews 727 00:37:08,430 --> 00:37:06,880 interviews items from the skeptic 728 00:37:11,250 --> 00:37:08,440 magazine the journal from Australian 729 00:37:19,220 --> 00:37:11,260 skeptics we turn to volume 35 number 730 00:37:22,820 --> 00:37:19,230 four from December 2015 on page 14 an 731 00:37:28,050 --> 00:37:22,830 article by Tim Mendham readers 732 00:37:31,230 --> 00:37:28,060 indigestible Tim Mendham looks at those 733 00:37:32,150 --> 00:37:31,240 other publications where skepticism is a 734 00:37:35,850 --> 00:37:32,160 dirty word 735 00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:35,860 sometimes this issue we look at two more 736 00:37:41,940 --> 00:37:38,710 examples of the wonderful world of the 737 00:37:44,610 --> 00:37:41,950 paranormal one is an extreme example of 738 00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:44,620 niceness with lashings of all things new 739 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:47,230 age that will give you a sugar rush of 740 00:37:51,230 --> 00:37:50,410 epic proportions the other is more 741 00:38:00,060 --> 00:37:51,240 down-to-earth 742 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:00,070 literally read on and Tim Mendham 743 00:38:07,260 --> 00:38:05,290 reviews a publication and a website the 744 00:38:13,020 --> 00:38:07,270 first review is for a magazine called 745 00:38:15,660 --> 00:38:13,030 soul and spirit and the accompanying 746 00:38:18,180 --> 00:38:15,670 picture which is a cover of one of the 747 00:38:19,550 --> 00:38:18,190 issues of soul and spirit from October 748 00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:19,560 2015 749 00:38:26,310 --> 00:38:23,310 your October horoscopes by Russell grant 750 00:38:28,190 --> 00:38:26,320 master your psychic energy the number 751 00:38:33,710 --> 00:38:28,200 one way to connect with the universe 752 00:38:36,270 --> 00:38:33,720 learn to read tea leaves tonight astro 753 00:38:40,890 --> 00:38:36,280 aromatherapy discovered the soul 754 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:40,900 boosting essences for your star sign how 755 00:38:48,300 --> 00:38:43,810 to stop feeling guilty 7 stick to its 756 00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:48,310 secrets coach your self-confident other 757 00:38:53,220 --> 00:38:50,560 self love shake ups will supercharge 758 00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:53,230 your happiness fix your relationships 759 00:39:02,390 --> 00:38:54,250 and 760 00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:02,400 trusted experts listed is Sally Morgan 761 00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:04,510 for those of you who don't know she 762 00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:07,510 claims to speak with dead people soul 763 00:39:13,110 --> 00:39:10,720 and spirit if ever a magazine was made 764 00:39:15,180 --> 00:39:13,120 of fairy floss for those international 765 00:39:17,310 --> 00:39:15,190 listeners fairy floss is the Australian 766 00:39:17,820 --> 00:39:17,320 equivalent of candy floss or cotton 767 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:17,830 candy 768 00:39:25,740 --> 00:39:22,410 then soul and spirit it it does 95 is it 769 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:25,750 from its pink cover to its saccharine 770 00:39:33,060 --> 00:39:29,050 sweet messages it is as insubstantial as 771 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:33,070 spun sugar you realize that while it 772 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:35,770 might be tasty as soon as you touch it 773 00:39:42,540 --> 00:39:39,970 it disappears into its own niceness a UK 774 00:39:45,540 --> 00:39:42,550 magazine it covers a broad range of 775 00:39:49,170 --> 00:39:45,550 new-age topics piled up on one another 776 00:39:52,170 --> 00:39:49,180 one article alone shows you how to Ghana 777 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:52,180 quote the wisdom of the cosmos end quote 778 00:39:57,570 --> 00:39:54,210 through a combination of herbalism 779 00:39:59,460 --> 00:39:57,580 aromatherapy and astrology it's useful 780 00:40:02,550 --> 00:39:59,470 to know by the way that essential oils 781 00:40:05,550 --> 00:40:02,560 are quote extracted from nature in quote 782 00:40:08,250 --> 00:40:05,560 then again sour lamb chops and hemlock 783 00:40:11,700 --> 00:40:08,260 but they're probably not on the soul and 784 00:40:15,780 --> 00:40:11,710 spirit menu apart from the astro herbal 785 00:40:17,550 --> 00:40:15,790 aromas the magazine contains quite a few 786 00:40:19,740 --> 00:40:17,560 sections devoted to questions from 787 00:40:22,590 --> 00:40:19,750 readers with answers from various 788 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:22,600 psychics angel channelers tarot readers 789 00:40:29,670 --> 00:40:25,930 dream interpreters and general spiritual 790 00:40:31,890 --> 00:40:29,680 gurus the questions all anonymous so you 791 00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:31,900 don't know if they're real or not 792 00:40:39,630 --> 00:40:35,320 covers such issues as quote please help 793 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:39,640 me to hear my angels or will my single 794 00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:43,330 spill ever be broken or is my husband 795 00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:46,800 happy in spirit man quote the agony ants 796 00:40:53,820 --> 00:40:50,800 The Magazine refers to some by name give 797 00:40:56,940 --> 00:40:53,830 advice such as for the woman who lost 798 00:41:00,240 --> 00:40:56,950 her husband quote I see him chuckling 799 00:41:03,660 --> 00:41:00,250 sweetly as he tells me what a great job 800 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:03,670 you are doing in carrying on he says 801 00:41:08,260 --> 00:41:05,570 that you will be happy and they 802 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:08,270 you should smile and laugh more I can 803 00:41:14,020 --> 00:41:10,370 feel that all his favorite memories are 804 00:41:15,910 --> 00:41:14,030 of you two having fun in quote no 805 00:41:18,780 --> 00:41:15,920 mention of the loot buried under the 806 00:41:21,220 --> 00:41:18,790 floorboards then but seriously if the 807 00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:21,230 correspondence is real this is 808 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:24,560 patronizing but potentially dangerous in 809 00:41:30,910 --> 00:41:28,010 its inanity its pop psychology would be 810 00:41:33,820 --> 00:41:30,920 enough to make any skeptic angry if you 811 00:41:36,730 --> 00:41:33,830 didn't realize that quote anger is not 812 00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:36,740 physical it's part of our mind and for 813 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:39,250 the Buddhists our mind is not physical 814 00:41:45,910 --> 00:41:43,010 it exists by depending on the brain the 815 00:41:49,540 --> 00:41:45,920 genes the chemical reactions but it is 816 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:49,550 not these things in quote vacuous at 817 00:41:54,850 --> 00:41:50,890 best 818 00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:54,860 beyond the Q&A sessions soul and spirit 819 00:42:00,610 --> 00:41:57,410 has articles covering many different 820 00:42:04,180 --> 00:42:00,620 spiritual exercises and regimens that 821 00:42:07,660 --> 00:42:04,190 you can use to keep in touch with your 822 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:07,670 spiritual side your other being you're 823 00:42:15,220 --> 00:42:10,610 frustrated love life realign your aura 824 00:42:17,980 --> 00:42:15,230 shift your shape or shift your shape or 825 00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:17,990 even keep in touch with pets both those 826 00:42:25,410 --> 00:42:20,510 that are alive and those who have gone 827 00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:25,420 beyond to spirit seriously Derek Acorah 828 00:42:33,730 --> 00:42:29,930 quote reads the energy of two pets via 829 00:42:36,940 --> 00:42:33,740 photos and taps into the spirit of a 830 00:42:39,310 --> 00:42:36,950 kitty from the other side in quote a 831 00:42:42,010 --> 00:42:39,320 problem with these articles is that they 832 00:42:45,070 --> 00:42:42,020 present a plethora of complimentary at 833 00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:45,080 best or contradictory at worst 834 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:48,170 techniques for the sad confused reader 835 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:50,330 to follow no one would have the time 836 00:42:56,380 --> 00:42:53,450 money or spiritual energy to follow all 837 00:42:58,720 --> 00:42:56,390 of them so you would no doubt be worried 838 00:43:00,850 --> 00:42:58,730 that you had missed the one true 839 00:43:03,610 --> 00:43:00,860 technique that would give your spirits 840 00:43:06,460 --> 00:43:03,620 their much-needed lift there is the 841 00:43:08,380 --> 00:43:06,470 occasional bright light one story looks 842 00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:08,390 at an interesting description of the 843 00:43:15,940 --> 00:43:12,110 beauty of Snowdonia to quickly descend 844 00:43:19,359 --> 00:43:15,950 into ghosts and lake monsters so who is 845 00:43:22,809 --> 00:43:19,369 this publication for well based on the 846 00:43:26,140 --> 00:43:22,819 imaginary and editorial content it seems 847 00:43:28,329 --> 00:43:26,150 its target audience is women front and 848 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:28,339 center pure and simple 849 00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:30,650 not even thinking about the sickly 850 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:34,400 barbie-ish pink color scheme that can be 851 00:43:39,130 --> 00:43:36,650 found throughout the illustrations and 852 00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:39,140 photography used almost exclusively of 853 00:43:44,499 --> 00:43:42,079 women apart from the male psychics who 854 00:43:46,890 --> 00:43:44,509 answer questions themselves in a decided 855 00:43:51,039 --> 00:43:46,900 minority there are no photos of men 856 00:43:55,870 --> 00:43:51,049 instead as visual mentoring there are 857 00:43:58,089 --> 00:43:55,880 any many glamorous shots mainly library 858 00:44:01,989 --> 00:43:58,099 photos of women in various poses and 859 00:44:05,349 --> 00:44:01,999 locations the makeup pages are obviously 860 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:05,359 for women as are the quote freebies and 861 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:06,410 offers end quote 862 00:44:11,799 --> 00:44:09,170 with more makeup and jewelry and the 863 00:44:14,589 --> 00:44:11,809 astrology pages featuring illustrations 864 00:44:17,529 --> 00:44:14,599 of women for each star sign that are 865 00:44:20,249 --> 00:44:17,539 more sensual than spiritual sort of 866 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:20,259 Disney Princesses for grownups or 867 00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:23,690 pubescent boys what a poor stereotype of 868 00:44:30,460 --> 00:44:26,480 women at presents but surely does not 869 00:44:33,579 --> 00:44:30,470 represent endless inane secondly vague 870 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:33,589 niceness confirmatory rubbish and 871 00:44:37,470 --> 00:44:35,690 absolutely no is passionate view of 872 00:44:40,599 --> 00:44:37,480 anything to do with the New Age at all 873 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:40,609 all rubbish is welcome and all rubbish 874 00:44:46,329 --> 00:44:43,130 is published but it's been going for 875 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:46,339 over 90 monthly issues so there must be 876 00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:50,450 something for someone and there is the 877 00:44:55,499 --> 00:44:52,400 issue of soul and spirit under review 878 00:44:58,059 --> 00:44:55,509 included a free guardian angel bookmark 879 00:45:01,329 --> 00:44:58,069 but like everything else in soul and 880 00:45:09,309 --> 00:45:01,339 spirit it's lightweight and tinny 881 00:45:11,710 --> 00:45:09,319 how appropriate next up for review is 882 00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:11,720 flat earthers which is quite appropriate 883 00:45:17,319 --> 00:45:15,200 now some years after this is published 884 00:45:19,900 --> 00:45:17,329 these reviews have been published given 885 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:19,910 the rise of the flat earth movement and 886 00:45:25,299 --> 00:45:21,890 wonder where it's moving to flat 887 00:45:27,370 --> 00:45:25,309 earthers in the paranormal world there 888 00:45:29,570 --> 00:45:27,380 have always been some claims and 889 00:45:32,810 --> 00:45:29,580 claimants that have been 890 00:45:35,180 --> 00:45:32,820 now shall we put it weird we're not 891 00:45:39,050 --> 00:45:35,190 talking about unsubstantiated here like 892 00:45:41,660 --> 00:45:39,060 homeopathy or dubious such as Nessie no 893 00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:41,670 we're talking about those organizations 894 00:45:48,110 --> 00:45:44,880 that are so far out there that they are 895 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:48,120 fun and you wonder if those who run the 896 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:52,050 organizations are equally having fun are 897 00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:56,010 they joking or are they serious so it is 898 00:46:00,050 --> 00:45:57,090 with the flat-earthers 899 00:46:03,620 --> 00:46:00,060 first of all we have to say that they 900 00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:03,630 exist and they walk among us we know we 901 00:46:10,790 --> 00:46:07,710 have proof they have websites prime 902 00:46:16,490 --> 00:46:10,800 among them of course is the Flat Earth 903 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:16,500 Society WWD Flat Earth Society org this 904 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:20,850 group has its mission quote to promote 905 00:46:26,270 --> 00:46:23,970 and initiate discussion of Flat Earth 906 00:46:29,420 --> 00:46:26,280 theory as well as archive Flat Earth 907 00:46:32,690 --> 00:46:29,430 literature our forums act as a venue to 908 00:46:36,260 --> 00:46:32,700 encourage free thinking and debate when 909 00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:36,270 quote the site readily points out in its 910 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:40,290 fa Q's that quote this site is not a 911 00:46:46,610 --> 00:46:42,810 joke we are actively promoting the Flat 912 00:46:49,100 --> 00:46:46,620 Earth movement worldwide ok there are 913 00:46:52,010 --> 00:46:49,110 admittedly several non serious Flat 914 00:46:56,300 --> 00:46:52,020 Earth posters but they are fairly easy 915 00:46:59,720 --> 00:46:56,310 to identify main quote and as an aside I 916 00:47:02,380 --> 00:46:59,730 would remind listeners if they can to 917 00:47:05,150 --> 00:47:02,390 view the documentary beyond the curve 918 00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:05,160 currently on Netflix we go back to the 919 00:47:11,570 --> 00:47:08,010 article as nicely elaborated in the 920 00:47:13,580 --> 00:47:11,580 history section of the site quote Flat 921 00:47:16,070 --> 00:47:13,590 Earth Society dates back to the early 922 00:47:18,650 --> 00:47:16,080 1800s when it was founded by Samuel 923 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:18,660 Baily Rowbotham an English inventor 924 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:21,930 Rowbotham Flat Earth views were based 925 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:25,170 largely on literal interpretation of 926 00:47:32,540 --> 00:47:28,770 Bible passages his system called setec 927 00:47:35,140 --> 00:47:32,550 astronomy held that the earth is a flat 928 00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:35,150 disk centered at the North Pole and 929 00:47:41,809 --> 00:47:38,850 bounded along its southern edge by a 930 00:47:44,689 --> 00:47:41,819 wall of ice with the Sun 931 00:47:47,449 --> 00:47:44,699 oonh planets and stars only a few 932 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:47,459 hundred miles above the surface of the 933 00:47:55,759 --> 00:47:52,130 earth after Rowbotham death in 1884 934 00:47:59,299 --> 00:47:55,769 followers of his setec astronomy founded 935 00:48:02,390 --> 00:47:59,309 the universal setec society and quote 936 00:48:05,569 --> 00:48:02,400 the Flat Earth theory developed further 937 00:48:08,509 --> 00:48:05,579 in the US but gradually faded in popular 938 00:48:10,969 --> 00:48:08,519 interest salvation was on the way via 939 00:48:13,549 --> 00:48:10,979 Samuel Shenton a fellow of the Royal 940 00:48:15,859 --> 00:48:13,559 Astronomical Society and the Royal 941 00:48:19,449 --> 00:48:15,869 Geographic Society who founded the 942 00:48:22,009 --> 00:48:19,459 International Flat Earth Society in 1956 943 00:48:25,069 --> 00:48:22,019 also referred to as the International 944 00:48:28,370 --> 00:48:25,079 Flat Earth Research Society Shenton died 945 00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:28,380 in 1971 and his successor Charles 946 00:48:33,259 --> 00:48:30,690 Johnson quote actively and charismatic 947 00:48:38,620 --> 00:48:33,269 Allah promoted the society when quote 948 00:48:41,989 --> 00:48:38,630 its membership increased to over 3000 949 00:48:44,959 --> 00:48:41,999 unfortunately in 1995 Johnson's home was 950 00:48:47,359 --> 00:48:44,969 destroyed in a fire along with all the 951 00:48:50,390 --> 00:48:47,369 Society's libraries archive and 952 00:48:53,539 --> 00:48:50,400 membership lists he vowed to rebuild the 953 00:48:56,809 --> 00:48:53,549 society but died in 2001 leaving the 954 00:48:59,989 --> 00:48:56,819 Society's future uncertain but do not 955 00:49:01,569 --> 00:48:59,999 fear the society was resurrected in 2004 956 00:49:05,539 --> 00:49:01,579 and remains active today 957 00:49:08,509 --> 00:49:05,549 in 2009 it officially reopened to new 958 00:49:11,390 --> 00:49:08,519 members the website is professionally 959 00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:11,400 designed with a great gallery of maps 960 00:49:17,269 --> 00:49:14,160 illustrations and an extensive 961 00:49:20,479 --> 00:49:17,279 collection of sentence lecture posters a 962 00:49:23,029 --> 00:49:20,489 must read if only for cultural reasons 963 00:49:25,219 --> 00:49:23,039 copies of pamphlets and articles as well 964 00:49:28,189 --> 00:49:25,229 as a wiki with lots of links to articles 965 00:49:28,819 --> 00:49:28,199 and videos that promote the Society's 966 00:49:31,489 --> 00:49:28,829 views 967 00:49:35,870 --> 00:49:31,499 sadly the Society's last newsletter 968 00:49:39,559 --> 00:49:35,880 seems to have been in 1994 although it 969 00:49:42,660 --> 00:49:39,569 did feature the headline quote Australia 970 00:49:45,330 --> 00:49:42,670 not down under and quote 971 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:45,340 well worth a read at least until the Sun 972 00:49:54,690 --> 00:49:47,890 rises over the wall of ice at the edge 973 00:49:59,250 --> 00:49:54,700 of the earth and that was a couple of 974 00:50:01,650 --> 00:49:59,260 reviews of a magazine and a website and 975 00:50:06,270 --> 00:50:01,660 you can read that for yourself in the 976 00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:06,280 skeptic magazine volume 35 number for 977 00:50:12,690 --> 00:50:07,570 December 2015 978 00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:12,700 freely available at WWF dicks calm got a 979 00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:31,589 [Music] 980 00:50:35,950 --> 00:50:33,969 thank you for listening to the skeptic 981 00:50:39,069 --> 00:50:35,960 zone and thank you to those skeptics our 982 00:50:41,859 --> 00:50:39,079 listeners who went along to see DJ may 983 00:50:44,979 --> 00:50:41,869 not may not our reporter man Maynard 984 00:50:47,890 --> 00:50:44,989 doing his Maynard's Love Shack DJ 985 00:50:49,779 --> 00:50:47,900 session in Sydney it was such a success 986 00:50:52,209 --> 00:50:49,789 I hear there's going to be another one 987 00:50:54,279 --> 00:50:52,219 soon and when I get those details I'll 988 00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:54,289 let you know thank you to those 989 00:50:58,359 --> 00:50:56,210 listeners who support Maynard and myself 990 00:51:01,299 --> 00:50:58,369 here at the skeptic zone via patreon or 991 00:51:04,959 --> 00:51:01,309 PayPal and you can support the skeptic 992 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:04,969 zone anyway at skeptic zone TV just 993 00:51:10,769 --> 00:51:08,210 click the patreon link coming up in the 994 00:51:12,910 --> 00:51:10,779 next few shows I hope to bring you some 995 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:12,920 interviews from the National Center for 996 00:51:16,749 --> 00:51:15,170 Science education which is not far from 997 00:51:20,289 --> 00:51:16,759 where I am right now 998 00:51:22,359 --> 00:51:20,299 over in Oakland I also hope to score an 999 00:51:24,370 --> 00:51:22,369 interview with that dr. eugenie Scott 1000 00:51:27,729 --> 00:51:24,380 always a pleasure to spend time with dr. 1001 00:51:30,999 --> 00:51:27,739 eugenie Scott and before I go just 1002 00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:31,009 another note about while recording the 1003 00:51:36,009 --> 00:51:34,249 podcast on the go as it were I'm not in 1004 00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:36,019 the studio I haven't got the range of 1005 00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:38,089 microphones I normally used some sort of 1006 00:51:43,299 --> 00:51:41,210 fur but roughing it that's not the right 1007 00:51:45,910 --> 00:51:43,309 term that's why when you listen to the 1008 00:51:48,749 --> 00:51:45,920 skeptic zone at the moment yeah you can 1009 00:51:51,549 --> 00:51:48,759 probably detect a slight variation in 1010 00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:51,559 recording quality some segments sound a 1011 00:51:55,749 --> 00:51:54,079 bit different to others but believe it 1012 00:51:58,420 --> 00:51:55,759 or not even though I'm recording from a 1013 00:52:00,219 --> 00:51:58,430 basement at the moment there are still 1014 00:52:02,019 --> 00:52:00,229 planes flying overhead I think they 1015 00:52:04,660 --> 00:52:02,029 follow me all the way from the sceptic 1016 00:52:06,370 --> 00:52:04,670 zone studios in Sydney and that is a 1017 00:52:08,170 --> 00:52:06,380 little bit under the flight path while 1018 00:52:12,539 --> 00:52:08,180 I'm not under the flight path here but 1019 00:52:15,729 --> 00:52:12,549 still somehow well maybe it's paranormal 1020 00:52:18,579 --> 00:52:15,739 hmm I think I'll ponder that until next 1021 00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:18,589 week but for this week this is Richard 1022 00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:20,569 Saunders signing off from the San 1023 00:52:31,630 --> 00:52:28,700 you've been listening to the skeptic 1024 00:52:38,300 --> 00:52:31,640 zone podcast please visit our website at 1025 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:38,310 wwlp.com tax and to access the bat 1026 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:41,810 catalog of episodes going back to 2008 1027 00:52:47,780 --> 00:52:44,490 you can follow the skeptic zone podcast 1028 00:52:50,060 --> 00:52:47,790 on twitter at skeptic zone visit our 1029 00:52:53,420 --> 00:52:50,070 facebook page or leave a review on 1030 00:52:56,780 --> 00:52:53,430 itunes you can also support the skeptic 1031 00:52:59,150 --> 00:52:56,790 zone via patreon or PayPal the skeptic 1032 00:53:01,100 --> 00:52:59,160 zone podcast is an independent 1033 00:53:03,290 --> 00:53:01,110 production reviews and opinions 1034 00:53:05,450 --> 00:53:03,300 expressed on the skeptic zone are not 1035 00:53:08,370 --> 00:53:05,460 necessarily those of Australian skeptics 1036 00:53:18,819 --> 00:53:08,380 or any other skeptical organisation 1037 00:53:23,029 --> 00:53:22,069 so does radiofrequency have any effect 1038 00:53:29,029 --> 00:53:23,039 on human tissue 1039 00:53:32,329 --> 00:53:29,039 apart from hate so you would no doubt be 1040 00:53:34,699 --> 00:53:32,339 worried that you had missed the one true